Yesterday I brought attention to a low down dirty scheme to generate leads. It raised the attention on a few different topics that should addressed further, in my opinion.
The first is the real world of internet marketing. It makes no difference if you sell ring tones, generating mortgage leads, or running traffic to a Russian bride site you are going to run across some type of fraud. Whether it is click fraud, rouge affiliates or bad ad networks you are bound to feel the pain from fraud.
While working as a lead buyer and marketing manager, a few years back, I came across a situation that could have been very damaging to my company. We had launched a new offer that emphasized a new and creative mortgage product and expressed the opportunities of saving money. The campaign seemed to be working well until our LO’s began visiting the marketing department asking about a “new loan product for black people”. Yes, you read that right. Apparently, one of their publishers/affiliates/partner, what ever you want to call them, took it upon themselves to change the creative and announce that my company was finally offering this new product to “black people”. Thank goodness no one other then my company was offended by the outrageous claim and blatant example of discrimination.
I was able to speak with the marketing manager at Adteractive to find out more about what had happened last week. According to Adteractive this insane occurrence was a perfect example of what can happen to virtually any company. First, I want to premise this by telling you that in no way was I encouraged to write this post, but rather wanted to bring it up again to reiterate the importance for lead generation companies to continue to monitor their partners/affiliates/networks. Unfortunately this situation may have slipped through the cracks anyway, but there must be something done about these types of situations, because if it isn’t Adteractive it may be another one of your providers or even worse your own in-house campaign where you maybe legally liable. People or companies should be held accountable for these strategies. This situation will clearly hurt Adteractive for the short term and the affiliate who put them in the situation should be held accountable too. The good news is that once issues like this are found they can be quickly be eliminated and this brings up the point I always find to be very important and that is to give your lead provider as much feedback as possible and to also keep your eyes and ears open to what the consumers are telling you.
What can be done? Should there be a black list for advertisers and affiliates? Would that black list include every single advertiser in the industry? Can an industry or type of marketing be policed? Unfortunately, I am not convinced that it can be. There simply are too many variables and similar to the mortgage scum bags they will simply change the name of their company and continue to work under a different name.
Thoughts??
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I am called every day by salespeople claiming that I “signed up online” to be contacted by them. They ask about my timeshare (I don’t own one), my mortgage (don’t have one) and other annoying things. They claim they have my full name and email but they are not mine. When I ask where they got the information they can’t or won’t tell me – the answer is invariably a “third party” website. They claim I am unsubscribed from their lists but calls keep coming in. What kind of industry is this? How do you people sleep at night? At least with spammers I can install filters and they’re not waking me up at 4 AM. This industry needs more criticism and scrutiny, not apologetic puff-pieces like this blog entry.
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You may want actually to read the post next time and possibly the websites you filled out your information on too. There is no apology being made here and all the porn sites you visit probably have privacy policies explaining what they are going to do with your data, I understand though, you were probably in a hurry.
Other then your last statement I agree and that is why I wrote the post. there needs to be a level of scrutiny I’m place and to some extent I think there is, but it possibly may need more.
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Ok my last comment may have been overly accusatory and for that I apologize. The fact is that I honestly did not give my phone number to any porn site. I truly believe my information was harvested either by a hacker or through spambots going through the whois system or other public directories.
Irrespective of how the information was obtained, the whole concept of a deeply hidden “privacy policy” giving a marketer to resell my phone number to call centers from now until the end of time is an absolute joke, especially given that I am on the FTC’s do not call list.
After re-reading the piece, it still seems that you were convinced by a slick salesperson that this was simply an “insance experience” that “slipped through the cracks”. I would suggest that this type of fraud is all too common in the online lead generation space and threatens to create a severe backlash if not curtailed.
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Apology accepted.
I do want to clarify the piece a bit: I was not convinced by anyone. I have been an online marketer for 7 years and have seen a number of crazy strategies and I call every one of them how I see them here on this blog. I have never been pushed one way or the other by anyone, attorney or cease and desist letter. I give my own opinions right or wrong. So throw that thought out the door.
The way every single lead generation company works, no matter what they tell you, is with some sort of third party that either drives traffic to their form or posts leads directly to them. Each one runs the risk of partnering with a company that does not follow their own standards and ethics.
There are also companies that participate in these strategies full knowing what they are doing is wrong and unethical without the help of a 3rd party. Because it happened to me personally too, I felt the need to be a little sympathetic and also use this example to encourage companies to continually vet their partners and keep a very close eye on what they are doing.
Regarding your information. Currently, I am receiving an automated call to renew my cars warranty, which I never have had and the phone message does not give me a chance to opt out.
Where did they get my cell phone number? Who knows, there are too many offline and online ways to get information and that is problem. There are too many holes in the damn and not a enough thumbs.
I agree that fraud is all too common and that is why I take it upon myself to bring it to your attention when I come across it.
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“I_Hate,”
I would agree that this type of fraud has been all too common, but I also think that the market is thinning dramatically in the current mortgage downturn and that the companies that will make it through this market are NOT the types of companies that would knowingly participate in this type of marketing. I think this type of thing was far more prevalent 2+ years ago when the industry was still thriving. But ultimately this was the very reason this site was created and I think Lead Critic has done a tremendous job bringing it to the forefront. This is a perfect example. Had Adteractive not been called out on this, they would likely still be unknowingly allowing this type of marketing on their market place.
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My question is for any lead company that “unknowingy” gets leads generated this way.
Once the find the problem and dissolve the relationship, do they credit their clients?
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Dude,
who takes on the risk? Should it be shared by both parties or by just one and which? Good question, I initially think that the servicing company should make it right, which in all other cases they do by accepting returns.
I think it is fair to say that their is fine line in this subject, because you start debating marketing practices. I guess it would need to be clearly defined in a marketing agreement so neither party can take advantage of the other
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If the marketing tactics are deceptive I would expect to get a credit or shut them off. The lead provider should take the risk and go back to the marketing partner for a credit of their own. Holding folks financially responsible and being diligent is the only way to get this fixed in the industry.
Critic you are right on that it depends on the contract you have negotiated.
That being said I am sure I have leads coming into my shop that I haven’t caught that fall in this category due to the sheer number of leads we buy. But we sure try to identify the leads that do and address them with the provider.
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I have my phone number plastered all over WHOIS records and never (well, very rarely) get solicitations. Of course its on a do-not-call list, and I’m keen to mention the $11K per-violation fine to any telemarketer who should ring up.
The only thing that will clear this up is fines. I seriously doubt that will be happening anytime soon – this is a complex matter and the authorities can cherry pick stolen goods cases off CL, they don’t get promoted by going after complex torts and other “gray-area” types of civil matters with small dollar amounts associated with them.
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The bottom line is that the lead generation companies don’t care beyond how much it hurts their bottom line. They outsource the unscrupulous aspects of the business to affiliates and collect the revenue. When they get called on it they can claim ignorance and refund that single instance of fraud. What systems do they have in place to preemptively prevent this kind of activity? The sad part is that the clients don’t care either, so long as they get a refund on the fraudulent activity. Who cares about the consumer who’s cell phone has been rendered useless? Absolutely no one in this industry. It really is worse than spam. My cell phone minutes cost money and if the calls continue I have little recourse but to change my number, costing me thousands in new business cards, updating client contacts etc. This needs to be stopped and not just by issuing refunds to lead buyers.
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I_hate,
I don’t think you understand the complete picture. There are many companies that care about the consumers and do everything they can to prevent harmful acts from happening. In many respects the abuse takes place after the lead has been sold to the buyer. Leads are resold, called too many times, etc.
It is not simply isolated to lead generation, it has to do with how everything that is done on the internet from purchasing items or services. Fraud happens with or without the internet or lead generation companies. The goal should be to eliminate it, but to think that people don’t care is only partially correct and an overstatement in my opinion.
Just curious, what do you do and how long have been involved with the lead generation industry?
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I guess I have ranted enough – too many margaritas last night and the hate just flowed:)
I have some friends in the industry and have picked up a cursory understanding of the way things work. I like to read up on internet marketing as I am more of technical person and I’d like to have a better handle on the ability to monetize my creations. Anyway, this is a good blog – thanks and keep up the good work.
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Fair enough and thanks
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